"I'm 195 lbs and 5'10" and in good shape with most of my weight on top. I ride a 6'6" to 6'10" for my normal shortboard and got a 5'10" fish this year. I love the ability to get into waves, the speed and maneuverability in under head-high surf, but have problems with the outside nose rail digging at times. I also have problems with steep takeoffs because of the lack of nose rocker. What aspects of the fish should I keep and what should I change?" --John
Rusty, who's been shaping since before the original fish was invented, fillets the question:
Ironically, the traditional/old school fish was designed for and excelled in fast hollow waves like Old Break, Big Rock, and Blacks but it was primarily ridden as a kneeboard, and ridden much shorter than your board at 4'8" to 5'2". In fact, 5'6" was considered big. Eventually more and more people actually started standing up on the bigger ones and discovered that they were fast and maneuverable (sort of) in small, mushy, running waves. If you are interested in more background, hit up Eric Huffman at:
BirdSurfBlog.com
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| Fish aren't just for trippy hippies anymore. They can add some flare to your summertime quiver. Eric Soderquist flashes his fish. Photo: Chris Burkard |
Rocker, or lack of, can be the culprit when a nose pokes on takeoff. The board isn't fitting the curve of the wave. The board needs to be shorter or have more curve. On your next fish, try a little more rocker in the nose and possibly the tail. A little more curve in the back half is just as important -- if the tail curve isn't fitting in the steepest part of the wave, it will lift the back end and drive the nose in.
It is important to have some balance in the curve. By that I mean the rail arc needs to flow from one end to the other. Having excessive curve at either end won't correct the whole package. And abrupt changes in curve will cause drag.
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| Alek Parker, clicking off the lip on his shorter, wider twinny. Photo: Chris Burkard |
Your outside rail digging is partly related to rocker and is also probably a result of the nose being too wide for certain conditions. Once again, the back half of the board may be coming into play. If the tail is very wide and the outline curve is straight (factor in low rocker), the back end of the board won't fit and/or release in a controllable manner.
Again, I am assuming your board is a traditional/old school fish. My numbers on this type of board are something like this: 5'10", 2.3" thick, width: 15.5" (nose), 20.5" (center), 16.5" (tail) and 12+" corner-to-corner on the pins. Rocker: 4.25" (nose), 1.3" (12" down from nose), 0.52" (12" up from tail) and 1.4" (tail).
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| Dane Reynolds, not digging rail. Photo: Chris Burkard |
My suggestion would be to pull in the nose and tail about an inch or so, leaving the middle width about the same. Pull the corners of the tail in at least an inch, maybe more. As the fish evolved, it sprouted wings. This helped to step down the width on the back end of the board and reduce the pin-to-pin distance to something on the order of 10".
Rocker: A little goes a long way. The front end could come up to approx 4.5". The back end on the older fish was low -- something on the order of two inches in the tail. Once again, an even curve would probably be a lot more user friendly in a broader range of conditions.
Thickness: The old fishes were flat but relatively thin compared to other boards of the day. Adding thickness to a flat-rockered board becomes a little problematic, in that the deck line starts to develop a hump, or an "S-deck", and transitioning out to a clean rail line becomes more challenging. To compensate for some of the volume you have given up by pulling in the template, you can add a little thickness to the center. With a little more bottom curve, you can probably add back in some thickness in the midsection.
Fins: A lot of the old school boards have the glassed on wood keel fins. These were designed to build more drive into very short boards. As you go longer, you have more rail and can probably get away with a shorter-based fin. If you don't have removable fins, try a fin system so you can experiment with different feels for different conditions.
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| Find out where your fish can take you this summer. Photo: Chris Burkard |
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Comments: (29)
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thomas abercrombie 08/30/2009 07:22 AM * PREMIUM MEMBER - Real Name
outstanding blog!
sean Milne 08/07/2009 06:02 PM
Speaking of Al Merrick shapes...his fishes are not really that thin and what is with the beak noses? Those should have never been in style. Is it that the shaper is too lazy to pass the planer over the nose a few more times. The beak nose is a terrible aesthetic. A good board should have a gradual thickness and no sharp angles. Beak nose? What for?
Joooooooooooosh 08/05/2009 06:52 PM
I mean a retro fish. I know there are skinny fishes but none of them are really retro.
jack 08/05/2009 03:28 PM
I was shaping for many mfgr's and glassing Rusty's boards before he was Rusty and his boards were by "prisdindorpher" or however you spell his last name. I was riding fish at least 5 or 6 years before that era, on this topic he's right on.
Ray Barry 08/01/2009 10:04 PM
I'm 6'4" 200lbs 45 yrs old. I don't longboard, so I was looking to get something to ride in the small sh**t. Been riding a Webber Mini Fish 6'0-21"-3 1/8" its got an insane 9" twin fin set up that works great in the knee to waist high range, but I find that a MR twin fin set up with a small trailer fin works best in head high waves, not so squrly. I recommend this board for anyone looking for a fish without the fish feel. Way more versitle, especially when you change out the fins.
Griffey 08/01/2009 09:34 AM
CI the only ones to shape a thin fish? Huh? Ever heard of ...Lost. Check out 5'5 X 19.75 vid.
Joooooooooooosh 07/31/2009 09:06 AM
Hey Rusty. Im a new shaper (17 years old). But Ive got some experience. I shaped 6'0" board that WAS going to be a swallow tail, kindof high performance. But I took a closer look at it and decided to shape the back into a fish. Well now im buying a new blank and looking into a real nice retro fish. Problem is im looking to reduce the thickness and get some skinnier rails. Everyone keeps telling me that Al Merrick is the only guy who can shape a skinny fish. How would you do it?
Thanks, Josh
mike gillen 07/30/2009 12:03 PM * PREMIUM MEMBER - Real Name
Rusty, how do you decide on what size and style of board will work best? I am 6' 195 in better shape than most 30 years old and started out long boarding then moved to a fish and now am interested in a new shape for higher performance surfing from 3-8 foot waves at places like Newport, Trestles (uppers, lowers, cottons) and Huntington in the summer and El Porto, Indicators in PV in the winter time. I am limited in my quiver and ability to buy condition specific boards so what do I ride?
Ken Walker 07/29/2009 06:00 PM
Hey James, try a 6'5" to 6'7" board for the winter bigger surf, I typically surf a 6'4"x 20" x 2.5 in the summer, and then range from the aformentioned 6'5"x19.25 x 2.62/2.68 or 6'7" x 19.5 x 2.68-2.70 gives me alot more float and paddling ability for the heavier surf. I am 5'10" and weigh about 175lbs. I've spent 10 yrs on the north shore, and thirty in S.Cal and have found that a little thicker and wider seems to work better in Ca., that of course is in waves from 2' to 10'.
mindog 07/29/2009 05:57 PM
happy medium should always prevail if your looking for the most versatile fish type board. don't go to nuts with ultra flat slabs with tons of volume just because it looks different. these boards will skate in super slop but blow it in real waves. on the other hand boards like the above mentioned flyer 1 and 2 will not produce in the smallest coditions but may excel in waves around chest high. I recommend trying this Quad from Matt Kechele called the U.F.O. medium nose, tight tail, just right
purple nurple 07/29/2009 03:14 PM
check out http://dksurfboards.com/sword.html. i am not DJ, but i ride one of his boards and swear by it. the thing has the speed of a Pavel Speed Dialer with the ability to still go vertical. i mostly ride fishes, but all of my friends shortboard, and they all trip out at how progressive this board is. seriously, if you live in San Diego, check him out and grab one of these boards, they're magic.
Ro... 07/29/2009 09:49 AM
James,
For an allrounder go for a Flyer I or Flyer II shaped board. Myself I ride it from 1 ft. mushy shit and rode it up to double overhead... Really a Jack of all trades to my opinion. Afterburner or Speed demon kinda boards should do the same. (I'm not to sure about the Speed demon though) Good luck!
jay diola 07/29/2009 09:32 AM * PREMIUM MEMBER - Real Name
hello rusty. since most shapers use a machine to get the basic shape of the board. why don't shapers include volume on the shape cards. i figure if i like my 5'11 18 1/4 2 1/8 that if i knew the volume i could buy a shorter fish with the same volume as a starting place. since most of the boards have an ideal shape you could just start with correct volume and ideal shape for the model you are looking at? why no volume?
LarryHoward 07/29/2009 02:45 AM
I'm 58 yrs old, rode lots of fish back in the early 70's and moved into hybrids in the early 90's and went strictly longboard about 7 yrs ago. I'm moving down to Brazil next year and want to start ripping again as the warm water really helps my older body. Can I jump back into a fish or gradually go step back down--hybrid to shorter board to fish? How long is practical for a fish. I need all the help I can get paddling these days?
Paul G 07/28/2009 08:59 PM * PREMIUM MEMBER - Real Name
Rusty,
I am really curious about the use of concave and convex in the fish design. I'm now designing something that allows me, the 200lb 6ft guy to still paddle less and pull off the steep oxnard drops, and the slow county zoo paddle ins. Clyde Beatty Jr once told me that at a certain point, its useless to put concave in a board that has a lot of inherent buoyancy (3") thickness. Concaves create lift and you don't need any more lift in a 3" thick board...is this true?
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